(no subject)

[kokosbolla.livejournal.com]

Comments

[bolddeciever.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I'm no NRA gun nut, but everything in that ad makes a ton of sense to me.

[glass-houses.livejournal.com]

Pardon me, but what the hell in this ad makes any sense to you? Please, I'm awaiting your answer, because I'm truly baffled.

[thomasirvin.livejournal.com]

You didn't ask me, but I'll offer a suggestion of how the ad may make sense to some people: People that grow up in a more rural environment don't just observe nature, they put it to use, the same way we use computers or cars. They maintain it, they interact with it, they respect it, they get pissed off at it, et cetera. And when you grow up with that sort of attitude about nature, you think it's your right to take from it what you want. That could mean cutting down natural vegetation to grow crops, or it could mean killing animals to eat. It's not even something folks think about a whole lot--they feel if they own the land (or have permission from the landowner) and they take care of the land and respect the land, they can do with it what they want. And that includes killing animals for sport, food, or population control.

Throughout the history of this sort of land/nature use, kids have always been indoctrinated into the ways of the land from an early age. That includes driving farm equipment long before they are authorized to drive a car, operating machinery like chain saws long before "city folk" would deem it safe, and using guns at remarkably young ages.

That's not my world, but I've been around it enough to have a sense of it. And that Winchester ad does a good job of capturing that world.

[glass-houses.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your explanation.

[nosyparker.livejournal.com]

That is (or was) my world, and I think you explained it pretty well. And FWIW I thought the ad was remarkably sensible, if a touch on the corny side.

[shawnndan.livejournal.com]

Seconded. As long as a rifle is used under supervision and with training in safety, there's nothing wrong with a teenager having the responsibility of owning and using one. Teaching a kid to hunt teaches self reliance and boosts their confidence.

[bolddeciever.livejournal.com]

Not if you're going to ask it in a way so inflamatory that I can't imagine I'd actually be listened to...

[glass-houses.livejournal.com]

:'(

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

The ad's emphasis on training and safety are admirable. OTOH, the greater access to firearms for rural youngsters inevitably means more firearms injuries and fatalities (http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-1775929/Gun-violence-and-children-factors.html), alongside any benefits. According to the ad, the wife's concern is the boy's young age, not guns or hunting. She probably wouldn't want junior taking flying lessons just yet, either. :-)

(There's something slightly creepy about the idea that "he might not have the chance later", by which I assume the ad means sonny might be down the mine or away at school or something, but suggests that ol' dad may not be long for this world. :-)

P.S. Thank you for engaging civilly.

[bolddeciever.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, if you assume that the ad is advocating giving the kid a gun that he can get out and play with any time he wants. But I don't think that's what the ad is saying. First, it specifically contains language about kids growing up thinking of guns as toys. Second, I did grow up in a household that had guns for hunting, and in that culture (and this comes both of my own experience and from other hunting families I knew), you're a lot less likely to habe guns lying around where kids are getting into them than in the suburban "I have a pistol by the bed to protect my house" crap. Yes, we were taught to use guns from a pretty young age, but we sure as hell didn't get to have them out when Dad wasn't immediately supervising. And assuming, as this ad implies, that there is already a hunter in the house, there are other guns in the house, presumably also stored safely and seperate from ammunition, so getting another one, and treating it as a firearm should properly be treated, isn't adding to that danger, and, arguably, the opportunity to train the kid in proper firearm safety and procedures is going to make the kid less likely to find Dad's gun and play cowboys and indians with it.

[misstia]

in this and age he'd have to ease his wife's fears that the kid will not go on a rampage in a few years with it...and to certainly assure her he won't teach him to hunt at a shopping mall...

[kokosbolla.livejournal.com]

don´t shoot our own son

[kokosbolla.livejournal.com]

your own

[misstia]

and don't shoot mom and dad!

[queenpeladon.livejournal.com]

Oh America, you're so batshit.

[thudpucker.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you ate meat? Wore leather? Ate Jello, for that matter? Serious questions, by the way. I'm not trying to yank your chain.

[queenpeladon.livejournal.com]

I confess I'm not at all sure where this line of animal cruelty/vegetarianism questioning comes from! Is there some obvious link here that I'm missing? My comment was a remark on the gun culture of America, and a lighthearted one at that.

[thudpucker.livejournal.com]

I apologize. I thought you were referring to the hunting aspect of the ad (which many meat eaters - curiously - seem to object to), I didn't realize you were lightheartedly calling everyone in my country batshit because of some who own a tool you disapprove of.

My mistake.

[queenpeladon.livejournal.com]

1. I did not call "everyone in [your] country" anything.

2. I have no expressed no disapproval about guns thus far.

3. Please gain a little perspective and a sense of humour, or at the bare minimum, learn to pick your fights a little better. I was quite clearly not out to vilify or offend anyone, I was simply making a snarky response to a bizarre advertisment in a community designed expressly for that purpose. Regardless of my opinion on gun ownership, any ad that talks about a boy's innate hankering to shoot stuff as part of his heritage is ripe for poking fun at. I gather that you support gun ownership or shooting, which is fine, but I see no reason for you to attack me as a means to expressing this viewpoint. At no point was my tone towards you hostile or critical; it's a shame you couldn't have extended me the same courtesy.

[thudpucker.livejournal.com]

"I did not call "everyone in [your] country" anything."

Oh, I don't know. "Oh America, you're so batshit" seems pretty inclusive to me.

You're correct that I over-reacted, though, and for that I apologize. It just seems that nothing can get posted here without someone finding it a reason to announce how stupid, ignorant, prejudiced, greedy or gun crazy they feel Americans are. It gets wearing after a while, and you start to get - you should pardon the phrase - gun shy about it.

[queenpeladon.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't know. "Oh America, you're so batshit" seems pretty inclusive to me.

Well, if you want to get down to the semantics of it, America refers more to the nation itself as an abstract concept - its values, its ethics, etc. If I'd said "Americans," you would certainly have had valid grounds to call me up on making sweeping statements about a vast number of people.

You're correct that I over-reacted, though, and for that I apologize. It just seems that nothing can get posted here without someone finding it a reason to announce how stupid, ignorant, prejudiced, greedy or gun crazy they feel Americans are. It gets wearing after a while, and you start to get - you should pardon the phrase - gun shy about it.

I completely understand your perspective on that, but my comment was really a response to the idea of America evoked by that ad (which, by my reckoning, is somewhat removed from the genuine article), rather than any sort of genuine commentary on contemporary America. So do please forgive what may have seemed a glib generalisation and I'll forget my buttsoreness :)

[thudpucker.livejournal.com]

"... which, by my reckoning, is somewhat removed from the genuine article..."

Kind of like the difference between the idea of England, and the reality of the United Kingdom?

"So do please forgive what may have seemed a glib generalisation and I'll forget my buttsoreness :)"

I can absolutely agree on that, and thanks for understanding. As a side note, I like the word "buttsoreness". I may have to steal it :)

[queenpeladon.livejournal.com]

Please, go forth and spread buttsoreness! LOL

[thudpucker.livejournal.com]

I'm not absolutely certain that the words 'spread' and 'butt' belong in the same sentence...

I see "buttsoreness" as belonging to the same category as the Americanism "soggy and hard to light", by the way :)

[nosyparker.livejournal.com]

"I couldn't afford a .45"

[dominoep.livejournal.com]

They lost me at "hankering" and spelling Daniel "Dan'l"

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

I can't see the word "Winchester" without thinking of Supernatural any more. And I don't even watch the stupid show.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

And then, buy the twelve-year-old his first car!

[amiga500.livejournal.com]

He probably should have started by making sure his wife knew how to shoot a .22, rather than skipping a generation.

For whatever reason, this ad has led to a lot more debate than other gun ads I've seen posted here. I know that having guns commonly available is pretty much just an American thing, so it's startling if you're from elsewhere, because I didn't grow up in the US. I also know that in a situation where you live with them, it's really good to know how to handle them safely. I'm not big on hunting, but I do intend to teach my son to shoot when he's old enough, because we do have guns in the house.

[3cthelion.livejournal.com]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301040,00.html

foxnews, so take it with a grain of salt (some of the statistics in there seem weird), but personally i don't doubt the conclusions. statistics i find interesting:

"In 2003... 28 children under age 10 died from accidental shots" (and most of those were not from the child shooting the gun).
"The most recent yearly data available indicates that over 30 children under age 5 drowned in five-gallon plastic water buckets."

lock up your five-gallon buckets! and be sure to store their water seperately!

[nokomarie.livejournal.com]

I can't help thinking you would be wise to tell your wife before you buy the 22. Just saying.

[amelia-eve.livejournal.com]

And when your daughter wants a 22? Then what do you say?